Duane Newton 0:04

Welcome to Navigating Your Path. I'm your host, Duane Newton. Today's episode was such a delight to record. I got a chance to talk to one of my very best friends, Dr. Beth Marlowe. Beth is the executive scientific director for infectious diseases at Quest Diagnostics. And we've known each other almost my entire career. We have so many things in common in our stories, and, uh, one of which we talked about today is the fact that we both were raised in military families. Beth's dad was a helicopter pilot during the Vietnam War. Her mom was a school teacher and, uh, it provided a lot of opportunities to experience some very unique things. And she talked about how, uh, her parents and kinda their perspectives on life really convinced her that she could be anything that she wanted to be, including an astronaut, which was one of her early ambitions She also talked about growing up in a rural farming community in Eastern California and how that helped her develop such a strong sense of community values and this really strong desire to help other people. She also talked about how her experience in industry really showed how we as lab leaders need to have business and communication skills in our toolbox, no matter what kind of position we have and what organization we find ourselves working in. We also talked about how as a relatively new employee at Quest, the COVID pandemic really forged and strengthened her leadership style. I hope you enjoyed today's conversation with my good friend, Beth Marlowe. So as I talked about before, it's just like we're having a conversation and happen to be recording it.

Beth Marlowe 2:11

I love that. Definitely. It's,

Duane Newton 2:14

yeah, I think, um, it's interesting having these conversations. I feel like people really want to have them, and then as soon as you say, you know, we're gonna do it for a podcast, then the vibe changes with people. And, um, the fact that it's, it's not just, you know. Us talking to ourselves, it's us talking to a bunch of other people. It changes a little bit, but I feel like the, you know, how we do the happy hours and the kinds of conversations that go on there are exactly the kinds of conversations that I want to have in this space. And it just gives us, gives me an opportunity to dive in a little bit deeper with you individually and, um, you know, maybe go on in some different directions. And, uh, and I feel like that allows people to get to know you a little bit better. 'cause it, I feel like one of the things that is super important and why I wanted to get into this. All of this kind of stuff anyway, was to build community. And, um, part of it is seeing how you see in the past that other people have taken and, and realizing that we all go through a lot of the same things. E even though the details are different and, um, the struggles that we've had and the questions about that path or ourselves that come up along the way are, you know, we are shared by others. You know, we, we've all felt those things and, um, you're allowed to feel those things and you're, and you're not less of a person for it. And, and hopefully through that, um, it gives. And people a little more confidence to find, find a path that's authentic for them.

Beth Marlowe 4:47

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Duane Newton 4:49

And then,

Beth Marlowe 4:50

Yeah, I think, I think what's interesting about what you said is, um, I think what it tells me is we crave that human connection. Like, and we just don't get it, you know, like we used to. That's why like face-to-face meetings are so important.

Duane Newton 5:13

Mm-hmm.

Beth Marlowe 5:14

Because when you go to a conference, it's usually the conversation you had in a hall, the hallway with somebody in passing is where you kind of get those nuggets that you walk away with. You know what I mean?

Duane Newton 5:28

Mm-hmm. That's why I started, I mean, that, that, yeah. The whole impetus for the happy hour was. Taking, you know, the happy hour at the end of the day, at the conference in, at the meeting hotel. And then you're sitting around bullshitting with each other and because that's the best part. And you know, those random meetings, you know, in the poster session or you know, getting some food somewhere and you run into somebody and I can't, you know, we've had those kinds of conversations innumerable times in those settings.

Beth Marlowe 6:03

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Duane Newton 6:06

And that's, I think, you know, that's where the relationships develop and, um, and especially for people early in their career, you know, they might see you at the, you know, see you walking through the conference hall or, you know, standing by a poster. But, um, you know, there's a little bit of that. Introversion or intimidation or in, you know, how approachable is this person. And so creating a space where, you know, we can be ourselves, our authentic selves and allow other people to see that and experience that, I think helps to create a greater sense of community. And then, you know, you're gonna be, you're gonna be seen as the real Beth, you know, not their perception of who you are. Yeah. And they know, they've gotten to see who you are and hear who you are and, and like who you are. And you know, they want to get to know you better. And, um, that's always, I think that's another, you know, a tangential part of it, you know, doing this is the postdoc program that I went through, created that kind of community be, or that kind of community was created because of the person that our director was and how she Oh yeah.

Beth Marlowe 7:31

You had Marilyn, right?

Duane Newton 7:32

Marilyn was, um, you know, she had that effect on us all because She,

Beth Marlowe 7:37

she was amazing. I didn't, I, I wasn't even her, like, she wasn't even advised by me, but the few times I interacted with her I was like, she is amazing. She, she's, yeah, she's amazing.

Duane Newton 7:50

So what have, have you seen, what, what is the transition? Uh, well, lemme take a step back. Let's start with, you know, how you got to where you are. I think that the, um, in University of Arizona and UCLA as a postdoc and industry roles and his first industry role in gen probe and working in a major health system in Kaiser, going back to industry. Now in a, a large reference lab, I, I think you've been in every environment except for the small community hospital, you know, out in the middle of nowhere,

Beth Marlowe 8:38

Jack of all trades, master of none.

Duane Newton 8:40

Uh, no, you're that

Beth Marlowe 8:41

be me,

Duane Newton 8:42

you're Jack. I mean, you have to be jack of all, we all have to be jack of all trades and master them all. I mean, I think that's, give yourself some credit, but, you know, the, that's quite, uh, a varied experience had, you know, I'm really interested in kind of even before that and

Beth Marlowe 8:59

Yeah. Yeah.

Duane Newton 9:00

Where you know, where you grew up and

Beth Marlowe 9:02

Yeah.

Duane Newton 9:03

What that life was like and how you can even got interested in science and going down that path.

Beth Marlowe 9:11

Yeah, sure. Um, so you and I are both military brats, I think you know that. Mm-hmm. And so, um, anybody who grew up in a military family, you we're just built differently. Right. You know, it's like, talk about resilience. I mean, I, oh, I should have done this before the podcast, but you know, the number of times that we moved, right? Mm-hmm. And changed schools before I even got to high school. Right. But you know, when you're born and raised on military bases, my dad was an army aviator. He flew helicopter pilots. He flew in Vietnam. My mom was a school teacher. Um, I'm super lucky to have the parents that I had because my mom was always, I can remember my mom putting my roller skates on me. She'd sit me on the washing machine, she'd be putting my roller skates on me, and she'd say, you don't have to marry the doctor. You can be the doctor. You know, and my dad, who was this big burly pilot would say, you know, his words were probably a little bit different, but gosh darn it, you can do anything you want. You're a Marlo, gosh darn it. But he'd use different language and

Duane Newton 10:22

well, you can, you can say the real language on this. This is, this is unfiltered and, you know, gonna be pretty much unedited. And you know what?

Beth Marlowe 10:31

Okay. Yeah. Because,

Duane Newton 10:32

you know, I think that being real is important.

Beth Marlowe 10:35

Yeah. Yeah. So my dad,

Duane Newton 10:37

no, it was goddammit.

Beth Marlowe 10:38

Is that Yes, it was. Yes. No, he was, he, my dad was, was so, so, you know, I have this like, interesting mix of my parents where my mom was, you know, really passionate about education and reading and making sure that every student saw their potential. And, um, my dad was just no nonsense army aviator. He used to say, everybody loves aviators in the time of war, but everybody hates us when it's not wartime because they're arrogant. Right. And like the two best times you'll ever have is with a cowboy or an aviator. And my dad was both because my dad came from a farming family in Blythe, California. And so, um, yeah, and sometimes I feel like I, I am very direct, but I'm honest. And sometimes I think, especially as a female, it comes out wrong. And where I know like my male counterparts could probably say the same thing that I was saying in the same way and it would be taken differently. Um,

Duane Newton 11:40

yeah. So I don't think I, I would go back and say it's, that's not wrong. I think that's you and it's honest and authentic and it's, you know, it's how other people perceive it.

Beth Marlowe 11:50

It is. But, um, but I get a lot of that from my dad because my dad was, you know, I mean, there was just no BS in my house, like in our house. Like my dad was like, you know, my mom used to say they're not your soldiers. You know, and, and you know, but I mean, he, my dad was great. When he was talking

Duane Newton 12:06

to you, he was

Beth Marlowe 12:07

treating

Duane Newton 12:07

you,

Beth Marlowe 12:08

but when he, when there was something to be done,

Duane Newton 12:10

yeah.

Beth Marlowe 12:10

Get your butt up and you go do it. You know, my dad, um, you know, my dad always taught me, you know, he was a pilot, so he'd always, you know, there's something I got from him was follow your passion and always show up prepared. You know, that's what I learned from my dad and I've always tried to take that with me. And, um, I went, I went off to school. Um, you know, my dad retired. We moved back to Blythe, California. It's a small, rural agricultural community. Um, my family is one of the original pioneer farming families in that valley. If you've ever driven on the 10 from LA to Phoenix, you drive through Blythe. Um, um, it's on the Colorado River. Um, we are considered the gateway to California and there's just not much out there. But I will tell you that the people out there are the salt of the earth. Um, I still have family members. I still own, um, a family ranch house that my great-grandfather built. I go home whenever I can, um, because. Knowing where you came from is super important. It was super important. Mm-hmm. When my mom passed away, um, that we kept the house and my kids knew their cousins and knew where we came from. And it's funny 'cause we, we drove through Blythe, um, on our way to Tucson, um, last fall we were going back to the U of A for homecoming and we brought one of my older boys friends with us. And, um, we stopped in Blythe. It's always been a stop for me 'cause it's halfway and check on the house, say hi to my aunt, and, um, get some lunch. And we pulled it down and, and my son's friend leans over and he goes, man, your mom got outta the hood. Like, it's just like, it, it, and, and, and my kids were really offended, which I love that. But I mean, it's just, you know, if, you know rural America's been hard, hit really hard, um. Hospital in Blythe. My great-grandfather who's one of the pioneer, you know, farmers out there, original farmers out there who built the house that I still own. Um, Jack was a cowboy, Jack Marlowee, he was a cowboy. Um, the hospital has on the, been on the verge of closing last summer, they closed all services except for emergency services. And this fall, um, the state had to actually step in to prevent the hospital from closing. And we're talking about a community that is 90 plus miles away from the closest hospital. And so these are the kinds of things that, you know, my dad would always say like, don't ever forget where you came from. You always have to give back to your community. You know, and you know, it's funny 'cause you said you haven't worked in a rural hospital, but I've been approached before like, Hey Beth, maybe you can help us with the lab out there before, you know. Mm-hmm. It never came to fruition, but, um, but you know, ironically, you know, when you come from a place like Blythe, California, my brother was disabled. Um, and we had, um, several times take him to UCLA to get taken care of. And, um, at one point he just, he just, um, uh, he, he had uh, it was like an ms um, and he just couldn't really get in the car to drive four hours to go to UCLA to have his blood drawn. I called the lab 'cause I knew the person that ran the lab 'cause it's, I went to high school with her kids and I said, Peggy, is there any way that you can just have the phlebotomist draws blood and then I'll give you the address on where to ship it to UCLA. And she did it for me, so my brother did not have to drive four hours. Mm-hmm. He his blood draw. So I think these are the kinds of things that we forget about in terms of community and just taking care of each other and showing up. I mean, I've been a pa I've been accused of being a patient advocacy to a, a advocate to a fault. I'm okay with that. You know, we all, you know, we all have our flaws, some of them I'm okay with. And so that just happens to be one of them. So I, you know, every time I go into the lab and I see a specimen, I see a patient, I see a family, I see a graduation, I see a family dinner, and I remind my staff of that. Like every Christmas I get up and I give the same talk and, and remind them how important their work is and

Duane Newton 16:32

mm-hmm.

Beth Marlowe 16:33

How much their work touches people's lives. And even on the days when you're just so tired and you're frustrated and everything's going wrong and you feel like nobody appreciates you, the patient at the end of that. Specimen and their families, it means everything too. 'cause that test result could have so much of an impact. And so these are the kinds of things that shape me and drive me and drive my decisions every day. So, yeah, I think it's all really important. It it goes to your core of who you are.

Duane Newton 17:06

That's, um, it's interesting and there's a lot of parallels in that, you know, the impact that, uh, you know, military upbringing had on me too. Um, and it, it, obviously your dad, your mom and dad, and your extended family and, and your community, you know, the values and perspectives carried with you or your, have, have carried with you your entire life. And, um, have, and you know. Maintain an influence over how you've approached things. The, um, we didn't have, we didn't have that kind of connection, uh, in, in my, in my life. Um, the families were small on both my parents and both sides of, uh, my family. And, um, I, I never felt a, a connection to any place and really didn't see my, um, my extended family didn't get to know my cousins and grandparents and aunts and uncles very much. And, and so that missing that, um, during my life was important, has been important for, um, for me to have that be something that my kids experienced. Even though in. Grandmas and grandpas are, are not, you know, in the same town and aunts and uncles and cousins. Um, I'm grateful that they've maintained, you know, developed and maintained those relationships. Even in, you know, the after, uh, aftermath of, um, my divorce, there's still, there's still connections to both sides of the families for, for the kids and, um,

Beth Marlowe 19:15

important

Duane Newton 19:16

and yeah, I think it, it is important and, um, but you know, on the flip side, we got to go to, we got to be in a lot of really cool places over the years and, um, got to experience some things that, you know, nine, 10-year-old kids don't, you know, most American nine, 10-year-old kids don't. I get to experience. So like what, did you have those kinds of things too? Like where, where did you guys live when, um, you were, were, when your dad was in the army, were you all always in the States? Were you overseas anywhere? Yeah,

Beth Marlowe 19:59

my, we actually, you know, he, did you live in Germany?

Duane Newton 20:02

I lived in Germany,

Beth Marlowe 20:03

yeah.

Duane Newton 20:03

Yeah.

Beth Marlowe 20:04

Where, where were you guys? Were you in Frankfurt? Where were you guys?

Duane Newton 20:06

Uh, we were, uh, in southern Germany, west of Frankfurt. So it was a little base, uh, in southern Germany when, when I was young, um, second grade through fifth grade. And then, um, at the end of my dad's career, he was in the Air Force. Um, at the end of my dad's career, they ended up going back, um, and were in the Frankfurt area for three and a half years maybe.

Beth Marlowe 20:34

Yeah.

Duane Newton 20:34

Yeah. So I got to go back there. Everybody loves Germany

Beth Marlowe 20:36

that,

Duane Newton 20:36

yeah, it was, it was awesome. I mean, it was, you know, to be able to, you know, to go in a circle. At five hours in any direction, you know, the change in culture and geography and language and food.

Beth Marlowe 20:50

Yeah.

Duane Newton 20:51

Climate, you know, was, it was just, it was incredible, uh, to experience.

Beth Marlowe 20:57

Did you, um, did you, did you speak German? Like did you

Duane Newton 21:02

Yeah, it's really, everyone asked me that. We, we spoke enough to be able, and I can still understand enough to be able to, you know, to find a place to stay, to find the bathroom, to read directions, um, to order, you know, I know the, the menus and the food, you know, the German, um, descriptions of different kinds of foods and so on. I would be just fine. And beer now.

Beth Marlowe 21:30

Well, so many people in Germany speak English too,

Duane Newton 21:33

so. Well, and that was the thing when I, we lived in a village, um, off base when I was a kid and all the German kids wanted to speak English. They were taking English in, in their school. We went to school on base and, um, with a bunch of other military kids. And, and so there wasn't any foreign language part to that. So the German kids were all speaking English, and so we didn't have any incentive.

Beth Marlowe 21:56

So this would've in the seventies, right. This is like, like, you know, kind of post, still post World War Two,

Duane Newton 22:02

like it was still kind of Cold War ish. Yeah. Um, before the wa the wall was still up and

Beth Marlowe 22:07

Yeah. Yeah. I just think about that time for us. 'cause you know, we're Gen X, right? And it's just, and I think about like our kids and. Everything that's going on in the world, and it's just, it was just such a different time. It's so fascinating to me, but I guess our parents were probably looking back saying the same thing.

Duane Newton 22:28

Mm-hmm.

Beth Marlowe 22:29

You know, it, I, years ago, I, so when I turned, I think it was, it was like my 40th birthday, I, um, my mom had, um, all these like eight millimeter video that she had, um, and she converted them to DVDs and she sent them to me for my 40th birthday and my dad passed away. Um,

Duane Newton 22:52

that was only a couple years ago, right?

Beth Marlowe 22:54

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like, like about two years ago. Um, my, when my dad, my dad passed away when, um, like two weeks before I met my husband and we just celebrated our 25th wedding anniversary. So he's been gone for 25 years and, um, and. Of course being the second child, like, I think I was in like this much of the video. I was like my, it was all my brother 'cause he was the older child. But, um, but, uh, I was, I was, I was really tripping out in my head because at the same time there was, um, do you remember that documentary on Vietnam? I think it was through like the history channel and it was like a multier, like Vietnam documentary.

Duane Newton 23:36

Mm-hmm.

Beth Marlowe 23:37

Anyways, I started watching that and then I was watching this video, these videos of my dad and, and um, you know, my thinking about like how young my parents were and like my dad was in Vietnam. He got shot, he got, he, he got shot through the knee when he was flying the helicopter. He flew Huey, so he was the guy that would like go in, get the guys and bring 'em back. And they were coming back and they, you know, started taking bullets and he got shot through the knee. Ended up with a purple heart. But he, like, he like went into pilot mode and he said he didn't even know he was shot until after he had landed the helicopter, which like, and he never wanted to talk about it, which I totally get now as an adult, but as a kid I was always asking him about it. And, um, but I was like, remember like watching these videos, thinking to myself, I mean, I was like to look back as a 40-year-old on your parents when they were in their twenties and what time was like,

Duane Newton 24:35

mm.

Beth Marlowe 24:35

It's just really fascinating to me to think about. I don't know, time is, time is a, a very, you know, it, it really, as you get a aging and time and looking back

Duane Newton 24:51

mm-hmm.

Beth Marlowe 24:52

Oh, it's in the last two years. You know, Duane, you know, we've lost my husband and I lost, you know, what was left of our parents, my mom, my mother-in-law, my father-in-law, additional family members and friends, and, and then you start to see your kids heading off to college and trying to make some decisions, and you're like, wait a minute. Wasn't like, I just that kid. Mm-hmm. You know, and even watching some of these, um, young professionals that you have in the happy hour and some of the things that they're trying to navigate, I just, you know, I can remember being stressed about it and navigating it. And now I think to myself, why was I so stressed about that? Like, why it's all gonna be okay. You know? Like you don't have to say yes to every talk. You don't have to say yes to every. Chapter you don't have, you know, like be selective with your time and do it intentionally and just get everything on time and do it well. Like, but it's really hard to explain that to people.

Duane Newton 25:55

Mm-hmm. Well, it also, I mean, to go and to dovetail that into your decision to go into micro and kind of how that all fell into place. I mean, it's easier for us to look retrospectively and Yeah. You know, accumulate all that data and say, yeah, oh, okay, this is, this is how it should have.

Beth Marlowe 26:19

Yeah.

Duane Newton 26:19

You know, it works out, but, you know, in the moment it's, it's not as easy. But, you know, to your point, I think the, you know, what, what we're trying to do, I think is help them realize some of those things sooner. Um, or at, at least pay attention to 'em a little bit. Sooner. Yeah. And so along those lines, you, what were the, were, who were the people in your, in your academic life or the, the experiences in, in the ac your academic life that shaped and molded, molded you once you, you know, took the great leap from Blythe California to, uh, Tucson, Arizona

Beth Marlowe 27:10

and, um, yeah, so I, you know, I think I always knew I wanted to go into science or medicine or some kind of science. Um, I actually, you know, growing up it, you know, being Gen Xer growing up in the eighties, the time of the space shuttle, I wanted to be an astronaut. And, you know, I actually got accepted to college as an aerospace engineering major. Um, and I was gonna go off and be an astronaut. And, um, I, I also got into Emory Riddle so I could get pilot's license. And um, I remember my dad took me to orientation at U of A and I walked into the engineering orientation and talk about like, the nerdiest professors walking in, and I'm not joking, like the pocket protector with like, all the pens and guy comes in and like, had down to like the decimal point how many hours a week I was gonna have to study. And I was just like, like to my dad, I go, we're outta here. I'm going over to pre-med. Like, I'm out. You know? Um, but I, I mean I had really great mentors that steered me that way. You know, my uncle, my, my mom's brother, my uncle Ben, he was. Um, an anesthesiologist at Brigham Women's Hospital, um, did a lot of the groundbreaking work on local anesthesia on the heart. So he always kind of was a mentor to me growing up. And then in high school, I had a teacher, Mr. Copeland, he was our biology teacher. He's my freshman biology teacher, and he was the coolest guy. And, um, and, uh, he, he always used to like, we'd come in and we'd have a test and we'd all be nervous and he'd say, whatcha nervous about is your time to show off? Get in here and show off kids, you know? And he was like so stoked about any kind of experiments we would do or anything. And he was awesome. Um, ironically, like when I, when I, when I defended my masters. When I got done, I called my mom and my mom said, um, or maybe, maybe it was before I was defending, I can't remember now, but I called my mom and she's like, are you nervous you to be okay? And, and I said, I just keep remembering what Mr. Copeland used to say. Like, this is my time to show up. Like I could hear Mr. Copeland in my head like the whole time. Um, and then, you know, I found my way, changed my major a couple times, um, from to Biochem. Um, ended up on with molecular and cellular biology, that was my undergrad, and started doing research at U of A. And I think that's what's really great if you go to a university and you have an opportunity to work in a lab as an undergrad there, you know, for me there was just a ton of opportunity. So I actually worked in a couple different research labs. Um, uh, David Morton, he was, um, he gave me a, when my first job in a, in a lab and he studied, um. Um, like neuro, it was like neurobiology. And I remember I had to dissect the nervous cords of, um, these mos they were called sex manduka. And I would go in and I would, we'd give up different treatments and then I'd have to actually look under the microscope and like dissect these nervous cords. And then I was, we were labeling things and trying to measure pathways and everything. And I kept thinking to myself, man, there's got a way, be a way I can do this and be outside. 'cause I'm such a sunshine girl, you know, and I'm a farmer's daughter and I went and got a job with this gentleman, um, Jeff Silver Tooth, who was a cotton agronomist. And so my family grew cotton, um. And, um, he hired me. And, um, I spent a summer going from one end of the street to the other. Um, we had all these cotton fields, um, that they worked with farmers on across Arizona and we were measuring the impact of all these different treatments. So I'd go out and we'd measure all the cotton and we'd count the cotton nodes and, and ev and every two weeks I'd stay, we'd stay in Blythe, 'cause Blythe is across the river from Arizona. And then we'd go up to Parker in Mojave. And, and, um, a lot of the farmers knew my dad that were on that side of the state, so it was kind of cool for me. Um, and then I, I worked for Jeff a bit, um, um, after that summer. And then I was applying to grad school and, um. I was taking a class at the time, which was state at the art at the time, um, called recombinant, DNA techniques where, you know, 'cause cloning was ran, like that kind of cloning was brand new. I'm aging myself. Um, but, um, it was a, you know, 400, 500 level class. And there was a graduate student in my class. Um, and I overheard her talking about her program, um, which was this environmental microbiology program, which I thought, wow, that sounds super cool. And she said, oh yeah, you should go talk to my advisor. So, um, Dr. Ian Pepper, um, I literally was like, I literally had like five or 10 minutes before a class and his office was on my way to this class. So I just popped my head in his office to introduce myself and next thing I know, I had a fellowship to do my master's degree in Environmental Micro. He also, because I had worked for Jeff Silver Tooth, who was in the same department, was in the soil, water and Environmental science department, um, called Jeff Silver Tooth. And Jeff was like, yeah, she's great. You should really hire her. Which thank God that he said that. And um, and uh, and ironically, Jeff Silver Tooth once sent me this random postcard from black from, from. From Blythe, California. 'cause he was out doing field work and I, he sent me a postcard, which he thought was really funny, saying that he walked into the horny Toad Saloon, which is used to be a bar in Blythe, which had a dirt floor. And he said he walked into the horny Toad Saloon in Blythe and asked if anybody knew Beth Marlowe. And the whole whole bar turned around, which I thought was really funny. And he didn't sign it. So I was like, who's this random person? He sent it to my box, like at the U of A, and then I bumped into him at the gym once and he's like, did you get my postcard? You know, so it was hilarious. Um, but yeah, so Dr. Pepper said,

Duane Newton 33:35

I think I need to go, I need to go to Blythe just to do that. Well, the

Beth Marlowe 33:39

problem is I don't think it's open. I don't think that, I don't think the Horton Sal is there anymore, but I think it's just a rundown building. But I would show you a good time for sure. Okay. Um, but, uh, yeah, so Dr. Pepper said to me, um. Yeah, we have this, we have this, uh, grant right now going on, um, because it's called the Maal Bay Project. And basically the city of Honolulu was being sued by the Sierra Club because, um, the city was dumping raw sewage into the bay. Um, and it is illegal, but they, the city had found a loophole. So the city of the, the Sierra Club caught wind of it. They were suing and they set, ended up settling and in the settlement they had to study the environmental impact. And there were like seven different universities involved with, um, like studying the environmental impact of this. And we were one of them. And so our job was to basically track pathogens around the island to understand the impact of this sewage. Um. You know, the sewage dumping. Um, my project was developing a quantitative, um, e coli assay, which at the time we didn't have like, real-time PCR. I actually used an HPLC to quantify PCR products. Mm-hmm. Um, and, um, I, I went around the island to track like, and see if I could measure all the different, but like, people in my lab were like, you know, they were, and all this was like cutting edge at the time, right. They were fingerprinting, salmonella to see if, you know mm-hmm. They could track that, you know, they were, um, looking at viral pathogens and, um, 'cause just because you pick up a virus doesn't mean it's viable. And so somebody developed this, um, integrated cell tissue PCR technique to try to measure, um, uh, infectious

Duane Newton 35:38

virus.

Beth Marlowe 35:39

Yep. Uh, you know, like, and like enteroviruses and stuff and, and. I was co-advised between Dr. Pepper and this and this other professor, Dr. Raina Mayer, which was like the, the best thing that could have happened to me because, um, I had, you know, to have a female professor who was starting her career and it's still a dear friend of mine. Um, and you know, at the time she went through a divorce. She had a kid in high school who, um, like whenever she'd go outta town, she's like, Beth, can you, can you go stay with Claire? And Claire was going through some depression and so I was kind of like a good person that, you know, could be a neutral person Claire could talk to. By the way, Claire is now an md, PhD, um, pediatric neurologist in New York City, and a total badass and married to another like, and married to an anesthesiologist, has a beautiful little girl now. I just recently visited with them in Tucson. All of them, um. But you know, I had this like amazing community that I learned a lot from these leaders to me, they, they as they mentored me and you know, Dr. Pepper was the guy that would come in and be like, kids, you gotta learn how to put the right spin on things. Like that's how you get a grant. Just put the right spin on things. And, you know, he always had some grant money going on, like he was, you know, and uh, and it was really cool. I got to go to Hawaii and take these marine samples and, and work with people. We would go back to the University of Hawaii and process 'em. And there were people from, um, Florida and all these different universities we were working with. And what was really cool for me at the time is, and I didn't realize it when I was in it, and I think that's funny when you say that because I think this happens to a lot of people. But at the time, um, the program at the U of A was one of the first of its kind, um, because, um, they had developed this environmental program. The department had come become soil, water, and environmental science, and it was one of the first of its kind program, which actually was interdisciplinary. And so like I meet a lot of kids who just got their degree in microbiology.

Duane Newton 37:51

Mm-hmm.

Beth Marlowe 37:52

Um, and so if you look at my diploma, it says soil, water, and environmental science. But it, but I'm in the environmental microbiology track within that program. But if I don't put environmental micro, it confuses people. They're like, oh, she didn't do microbiology. I'm like, no, no, no. I did. I just did it along engineers, soil scientists and hydro geologists. Yeah. And we, they put us together for these kind of, um, doctoral programs that solved real world problems.

Duane Newton 38:25

Mm-hmm.

Beth Marlowe 38:26

Which was really super cool because, you know, in some cases we were even dealing with people outside the university. That we're trying to solve the problems. And so when you have to think like that and work alongside people interdisciplinary mm-hmm. Like it was, it was an awesome experience. Um,

Duane Newton 38:45

yeah, that's a, it's a really interesting, um, point because I had that, that the outcome I think was similar. The, you know, the structure is, was different. Um, you know, you're, the program you're describing and the things that you were working on are amazing. You know, that that's a really, it is an incredible experience. I did my graduate work in a biology department and so, um, you know, kind of the parallel is, you know, you've got a couple of people, a couple of labs that are doing microbiology, geneticists, physiology en environmental. Science, behavioral ecology, you know, working with animals and, you know, squirrels and birds and fish and whatever. But it was a small department and we all had, you know, there weren't tracks. It was, everybody was together. And so whenever there was, you know, seminars, whether it was graduate student journal clubs or um, invited speakers coming from the outside, you know, it could have been about a million different things. And I think I, I think back to that time and being in that kind of multidisciplinary environment, it forced me to learn how to communicate effectively to people that know nothing about what I'm doing. You know, what it is that I'm doing, why it's important, and, um. Even, you know, like you're describing, how can I take advantage of or leverage the expertise that they have to help me, you know, in the context of, you know, the projects that I'm working on. And I think that that is a skill that, um, developed at that very early time in my career too. And I can look now 30 years later and see as a clinical microbiologist working in a hospital lab with so many, you know, at, in a very cross-disciplinary role. Mm-hmm. Exactly. Like you're describing how, how important that skill set is. And, and you know how it applies and I'm sure you experienced it, you've experienced it in each of your roles, industry, you know, laboratory, whatever. Uh, you've gotta be able to communicate and collaborate. Um, effectively across disciplines, build teams, you know, build strong teams, um, get everybody on the same page, leverage expertise and advocate, and, you know, all those things that come out of that. So that's, that's really it. It's really interesting that, that, you know, it's just another one of those things that we have in common in, in our background. It just kind of man manifests itself in different ways. But I'm curious, you know, you mentioned a couple of your mentors and, and, um, having strong female mentors that you, you know, admired. You, admired and guided you and set an example and showed you what you, not that you ever wouldn't believe what was possible, but you could actually see what it was and got support from it. Is that something that it. You feel like, you know, how, how frequent is that with your other women colleagues or people that you went to school with that, you know, a strong female mentor had a pivotal role in that, in you going in? That's a good question. Into the scientific realm because it's not, I think it's much more prevalent now to have, yeah. Especially in our field. It's very, um, well populated with females. But I'm, I'm curious as to, in your, for women in your, um, in your class, you know, your academic class in your age, how often was that part of the process?

Beth Marlowe 43:14

You know, I don't know the answer to that, but I do wanna make a point is that, um. I think male mentors are just as important as female mentors for, for women and men. Um, I think we get really hung up sometimes on, you know, female mentors versus, you know, and I'm not saying, I'm not saying that that's not important. I think it's uber important. Um, and I've been really, really lucky throughout my life. But, you know, somebody gave me some advice later in my career that said, they said, um, uh, find your own personal board of directors. Everybody should have their own personal board of directors.

Duane Newton 43:52

I think I told you that.

Beth Marlowe 43:53

Well, you may have been one of 'em, but actually Darna, Tana told me that you've told me that. Um, and when, and, um, and, and I. I, I think it's super important because you should always have on one hand these people that you can call who will be honest with you, who will guide you, who, you know, they don't have any skin in the game, you know? Mm-hmm. But they're gonna be honest with you, and at least

Duane Newton 44:16

other than their desire to help you and, and

Beth Marlowe 44:18

Right. They're always gonna point you in the right direction. Yeah. Right. Like, you know, and, um, and I think for me it's been both men and women. And, and, and that's why I was saying earlier to have been co-advised through grad school by, by Dr. Pepper. And, and, and Dr. Mayer, who by the way, um, um, had to hyphenate her name after she got divorced for a year to go back to her maiden name. Um, and so I remember that as a young graduate student, thinking to myself, note to self, I spent all this time establishing myself as Beth Marlowee. I understand, you know, when you get married, it's a personal choice if you wanna change your name, but I've never changed my name professionally because, because of that experience, watching her go through that, and she's a badass and she is well published. She's, I mean, she's just amazing. And I'm so luckily to, to have learned from her. But that was one of the things that I, I watched and I learned from where a man would never have to go through that.

Duane Newton 45:28

Mm-hmm.

Beth Marlowe 45:28

Right. And so I just think some of the experiences are different, but I think in terms of mentorship, I think having a male mentor and a female mentor are equally as important. They just have to be the right mentors.

Duane Newton 45:42

Mm-hmm.

Beth Marlowe 45:43

Um, because I, I, and, and I've, and this is gonna come out really bad, and I don't want it to sound bad, um, but I've always said I'd rather work for a man than a woman unless it's the right woman. I, I hope that doesn't sound horrible, but, um. Because I, I've had to work for some women that are really challenging to work for. And sometimes, and maybe it's a generational thing, um, because sometimes there's just some people that just get to a certain point and they feel like they're pulling up the ladder behind them. 'cause they got to where they were. It was interesting. I've, I've been doing this fellowship through Quest, which I'm really, really blessed that Quest supports career growth. Um, it's through the Center for Economic Development. Um,

Duane Newton 46:30

I was gonna ask you about that. So that is a Quest sponsored initiative.

Beth Marlowe 46:34

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, a lot of companies could sponsor people to go into this. Okay. But Quest sponsored me for this program. Um, we have some people, um, some of our, um, executive leadership are, um, trustees at, at at, at cd. I actually didn't know much about CD until I got nominated to do this two year fellowship. And really the idea is, um, how do we elevate women into the C-suite? Um, and the, the second year they invited men into the program, which is, is great. The guys that are in it are great, but the access we have to, um, like we have a, we have like, we have CEOs come talk to us every few weeks. And it's, and it's just us. Like it's just the fellows and the CEOs having a conversation very much like this about how did you get to where you're going to, what are the things that you do for leadership that, that you, that, that carries with you? What advice would you give to somebody else? And to have that kind of access, to listen to these business leaders in the US talk. And some of them are men and some of them are women. And I can't, and, and I think throughout our career, a lot of us have gone through these leadership programs and sometimes you get something out of it and sometimes you don't. I have never in my career. So many times said to myself in my head, wow, nobody ever told me this. Going through this program just because of the things that I, that I've been hearing. And there's a book, if there's any women listening to this that I would recommend. I actually, um, sent, uh, sent a link to a couple of my mom friends whose daughters are heading into college and said, make sure your girls read this. Um, and it's called the broken rung, like a rung on a ladder. And it's all about, um, it's based all, it's all evidence-based and it's all about how like, women getting up to this, to the C-suite and leadership and what does the data show about that. And it was fascinating for me, like I, and, and I brought up on this and we actually got to, they had one of the authors come speak to us, um, and I asked her like, what do you do about women who. Maybe aren't always so supportive of the other women around us, you know? And, um, you know, the reality is, is sometimes there's men that aren't so nice to the men mm-hmm. Below them. Um, and maybe sometimes it just feels more acutely so when there's fewer women in leadership. Um, but I think, you know, at the end of the day, um, there's more, you know, I've been lucky enough to be around good mentors, but, um, the Broken Rung is a really great, you know, book about, you know, how do you get there and what are we, what are we not doing for, especially for our leaders in science.

Duane Newton 49:36

Mm-hmm.

Beth Marlowe 49:37

Because, um, about, I don't know, maybe it's been like two years, I got invited back to the U of A to give, um, the departmental seminar. From the department that I graduated from. And, um, I, I stayed with, um, Rena Mayer, one of my advisors. And, um, and I said to her, I go, Rena, you've gotta, you've gotta give these kids two things. They need a business class and they need a communications class. We are doing this generation a disservice. You know, the number of business cases that we have to put together. Think about it in the lab. How many times have you had to put a business case together for the C-suite, but nobody teaches that us. They might teach you like mm-hmm. Undergrad, like, okay, you can put a budget together for a grant, but that's not really a, you know, like a business case for the guys that are looking at the bottom line. And how do you go in and communicate them? Because we're scientists, we wanna show data. These guys have so many other things to worry about. They wanna understand their bottom line. How do you, you know, you only have so much time in front of these people. How do we communicate that efficiently and put together the right kind of business case? Have you ever run a p and l. Right. Like, have you ever run a budget for a division? These are the kinds of things that people are looking at when we are thinking like, why aren't there more of us up there? Well, mm-hmm. Maybe some of us have to get a little uncomfortable and get out of our scientist comfort zone.

Duane Newton 51:06

Mm-hmm.

Beth Marlowe 51:07

And really be thinking and working towards some of that so that we can have more seats up above. And so, um, yeah. I wish, I wish I would've, I wish I would. My, I undergrad, my, I had a split minor in math and chemistry. I wish it would've been, I wish it would've been business and communications, honestly. But I wasn't interested in business, in communications at the time I was gonna go be a scientist.

Duane Newton 51:34

You didn't think Yeah. You didn't think you needed it.

Beth Marlowe 51:37

And nobody advised me otherwise.

Duane Newton 51:39

Well, you know, it's, it, I think it's, um. I'd be interested in your perspectives on, you know, what you feel like has changed over time. But I, I feel like those issues, the financial aspects of being a leader and, and the, um, communication aspects of being a leader, uh, have become more and more central to the roles of, um, people in leadership positions in laboratories, whether that's a director or supervisor, manager, you know, you can be a leader regardless of what your position is. But that being able to communicate and, and understanding, you know, the advocacy aspects of your role is so important. And I feel like as just. It's really, really ramped up in the last several years. And, um, it, the way in some of the things that I'm, I'm working on from a professional development side and the way I've been articulating it is we, we have to make this pivot from being the scientific and technical expert to the, you know, as a leader, you're an influencer, you're an advocate, you're a manager. And that is a completely different skillset that we don't get, we don't get taught, you know, we don't get any exposure to. And, um, and I, I think that it help has helped me, um, over time. You referred to your board of directors, you know, and my board of directors have included people that have, you know, helped me along those ways, you know, to, to kind of fill in, I've identified gaps that I had and, you know, who can I tap into to help me, um, fill that gap for me. And, and, you know, sometimes it's, um, you know, my board of directors is a very diverse group of people of, yeah. Um, they

Beth Marlowe 54:13

should be,

Duane Newton 54:14

you know, mental health, physical health, um, academic health, you know, professional health kind kinds of roles. You what are, you know, who are, who are the kinds, you don't have to identify them unless you want to, but you know, who are the kinds of people that you have in your. My daughter calls him, her, um, her Avengers. You know, I call, I call 'em love it. Board of directors. But you know, who are your avenger? Who are, who are your personal, your life? Avengers.

Beth Marlowe 54:43

I think I am like you. And sometimes I don't know if I realize they're part of my board of directors when they are. 'cause I reach out to them, you know, and whenever I get asked about certain things, I really like different perspectives. Um, and so yeah, I, I think I'm, I'm like you, it's like diversity, like I thrive around people who make me think differently. I love that. Like, like, like, and I'm not, and like, who challenged my thinking, but not in a negative way, you know? Um, but just put me like in like, get me thinking about things and give me perspective. Like, I, I like that. I love that. And so it's a lot of people like that, regardless of the subject. Um, well, I never thought about that perspective. Oh,

Duane Newton 55:31

mm-hmm.

Beth Marlowe 55:33

Oh, okay. So that's how I have to approach it now. Oh, I see. I see how they're, you know, I think, I think it's good. Um, I think we often live in our bubble too much. I worry about that with this generation I, and social media and other things. And, um, and, and we talked about traveling, you know?

Duane Newton 55:53

Mm-hmm.

Beth Marlowe 55:54

And the experience, like, like for me, and I was really lucky because my parents always traveled with us and were never afraid to, to go any place. And my kids have, you know, they've been to Europe and they've been to, um, um, well, at least one of 'em has been to Australia. The other one wasn't born yet. Um, but, you know. They like, if there's one gift I can give my children is a gift of travel so that they can see there's a whole world out there, they can see that things are different. And then hopefully through those experiences they will be able to see that perspective adds value. And I think it's the same with your personal board of directors.

Duane Newton 56:36

Yeah, I think that was definitely a, um, my experience as a kid growing up in, you know, for three and a half years in Germany, my parents did the same thing, you know, by taking us around to all these places it, you know, including, um, you know, going to East Berlin when it was still East Berlin and, um, going and visiting a museum that. It used to be, um, a Nazi concentration camp that, um, was turned into, turned into a museum and, you know, it's powerful. There was, you know, obviously things that, you know, at nine or 10 we weren't allowed to see appropriately. Yeah. But, you know, I still remember, I remember those things and that perspective. It, it did give me and has given me a perspective of, you know, that we are a global, you. The world is the world and people Yeah. You know, we're a global community and we're interdependent and Yeah. You know, we, there, there is more to this world than, than where we live and the things that we do have an impact on other. And so I have, I, I do have that appreciation and I, um, it's interesting. That, you know, my personality is tends, you know, I want to be open like you described yourself to those. And it, it sometimes is, is very much a struggle for me still to, um, you, where I find myself going. I, I spend a lot of time thinking and working through scenarios and, and poking holes in, you know, whatever plan that's being developed in my head to the point where, you know, once I'm ready to present it, I feel like I've already pressure checked it, you know, and, and so for someone to tell me no, I was like, I thought I, it's of, you know, it's like I, it's not offensive, it's. I think I feel hard, like it's hard to hear because I thought I did a good job of, you know, thinking about all these things, you know, 'cause I don't want, uh, I don't wanna present something that's not gonna, you know, that's gonna fall on its face. That's not gonna pass muster. I don't

Beth Marlowe 59:27

think that's natural. Right. That's, that's normal. I think we all go through some level of that and it's hard to hear a different perspective when you think you're right or you think you've got it sort of figured

Duane Newton 59:36

out. You've got it sort of figured out. Yeah. And because I think it's, it that's,

Beth Marlowe 59:40

but you're a thinker, Duane. like my older son, like he's my thinker and he really, you know, like he's doesn't always sleep well 'cause he's thinking through it and he is, yeah. You know, he's my thinker, you know, and he worries and it's like, you know, um, but that's okay. You know, it's, um, it's okay. I still think perspective is a good thing.

Duane Newton 1:00:05

The, and you know, you kind of touched on it a little bit and you know, for, if I was to answer the question, you know, if I could go back to my younger self or talk, you know, if I'm gonna talk to younger folks that are coming up now, you know, what would I say? What would I say to that younger version of myself then? It's not from the perspective of would I change anything? 'cause I, I don't think that's a fair, it's not, I don't think it's a fair question and because I will be the first to admit good and bad and ugly, whatever has happened to me over my life, I needed to have happen to me, for me to be where I am right now.

Beth Marlowe 1:00:49

A hundred percent.

Duane Newton 1:00:51

A hundred percent.

Beth Marlowe 1:00:51

And

Duane Newton 1:00:52

I've learned so much from those things, especially now, you know, as I've gotten to, to this. Senior point in my life where I, I am giving myself the space to be reflective and appreciative and grateful and, and finding the, the positives and the growth opportunities and the learning experiences that happened from those things that at the time seemed like failures or, you know, huge obstacles. You know, if I was gonna answer the question, it would be, you know, try, try to see that more in the moment. You know, try to, try to find those, try to find those things, you know, what, what's the learning opportunity from this? Not, you know, how did I fuck up?

Beth Marlowe 1:01:49

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Duane Newton 1:01:50

And that, that's been a difficult, you know, I still, even now, you know, pushing 60, I still. Struggle with that, but

Beth Marlowe 1:02:04

I think

Duane Newton 1:02:05

that's

Beth Marlowe 1:02:05

normal

Duane Newton 1:02:06

being more present, being

Beth Marlowe 1:02:07

Yeah.

Duane Newton 1:02:07

Yeah. I, some people handle it do better than others, and, and you are absolutely right. I do think, and, you know, I, uh, what's perseverate I think that's a, that's a good word. I perseverate, um, over stuff and I, I think being, being more present, recognizing what I have control over and what I don't have control over, and focusing on the things that I do have control over, you know, those are some of the messages I would give to, to my younger self and I try to give to younger folks now. And what, how would, how would that conversation go for you?

Beth Marlowe 1:02:47

Yeah, I mean, I think you, like, you hit the nail on the head with a lot of things, right? Is like. I think about it all the times I stressed over stuff and I think, God, it's all gonna be okay. You know, it's like if you, so I always tell my kids, so it's really interesting to watch my kids right now. 'cause my, my oldest is getting ready to graduate from high school making all these decisions about college. My youngest is going into eighth grade. They both have had their struggles. Um, my youngest has dyslexia, so navigating that. Uh, and he's amazing. He's just got this classic dyslexia, super bright, super athletic, super. We're all going to be working for this kid one day. Just wear a belt when you're around him 'cause he will charm your pants off. Um, my older one is a basketball player, um, trying to navigate this and you know, for my older one, he had a really interesting journey because he had to deal with really toxic coaching. Right. And I think. If you're a parent, you have kids that have ever been in sports, we've seen this. But he had a really bad experience back to back with coaches and, um, had an accident on the court and, um, was taking the emergency room. Everything was okay. I've got a bunch of stitches, but he decided he was gonna quit basketball, just quit. I'm done with organized sports. It's no fun. They suck the fun out of it. And, um, you know, we said, fine. You have to call the coach. The coach never once called to check up on him, knew he was hurt, um, and he left a message for the coach. Coach never called him back. And I said, you know what? You just, the coach just told you everything you needed to know. But I always tell my kids, um, the best revenge is success. Just keep your eye on the roll, show up, work hard. Everything else is noise. The best revenge is a success. And it'll, and, and it'll speak for yourself. So this was after Teddy's, this was the summer between Teddy's freshman year and sophomore year. So he came to us. I mean, during this time he never stopped playing basketball. He was playing pickup all the time. He, um, start, I think he played on an old man's league that he wasn't even old enough to play on. Um, and, and he, he got on a club team and decided he was gonna go play a senior year. And we said, okay, well maybe you need to play summer league because it's really political. And he said, Nope, they don't want me, they don't want me. Showed up for tryouts in the fall. Team was already set in. The coach's mind assistant coach, he caught the assistant coach's eye. They said, Hey, you should give this kid a chance. Ended up a starter. On the varsity team, and they made it to the elite eight in their division, which was amazing to watch. And this, and, and, and, and I said like, and my kids make fun of me for saying this, but I said, see, the best revenge is success. You kept drawing your goal, you kept doing it, you kept showing up, you kept doing this. Right. And, um, you know, and so now he's had this amazing journey and he is trying to decide where to go next with it and potentially playing a junior college to develop and see where he can go with it. I'm so proud of him. But like, going through that was so painful.

Duane Newton 1:06:02

Mm-hmm.

Beth Marlowe 1:06:02

As a parent. And I think,

Duane Newton 1:06:05

did you want to, you like, your, your inclination is to fix it for him,

Beth Marlowe 1:06:10

um,

Duane Newton 1:06:11

or protect him.

Beth Marlowe 1:06:12

I, I don't like you wanna protect your kids, but you also wanna let them know like, I. Hey, it's gonna be okay. Mm-hmm. And I think the same thing, like going through some of the trials and tribulations of my career are very similar, right? I mean, the, there I got rejected, you know? Mm-hmm. I didn't always, I wasn't the, you know, I wasn't the star student in some of my classes. I was persistent. I showed up, I prepared, I kept my eye on my goal. You know, I know people that were way smarter than me that didn't finish their PhDs. You know, I know people that were way smarter than me that could never navigate dealing with business people. But you know, I, you know, I had, you know, some not so great people I had to work with and I changed jobs. Um, but you know what? I was true to myself, true to my brand.

Duane Newton 1:07:07

Mm-hmm.

Beth Marlowe 1:07:08

Which is me. You know that I always remind people like, you can go work for any company you want to, but be your own brand. Because when you walk out the door. That brand goes with you, those connections go with you. So it, it just goes back to the same thing. It's the best revenge of success. Be your own brand and always remember that as you're navigating through this, because relationships are key. Consistency is key. Persistence and perseverance is key. And showing up on time, putting in the work, it all pays off. And, you know, trying to explain that to my kids and getting them to understand it, you have to experience it, right? Mm-hmm. And when I was younger, I was impatient. I overthought things. I maybe didn't have the same level of confidence, you know? And I look back now where I am and I think, you know, and you know, it's, it, it all worked out

Duane Newton 1:08:06

okay.

Beth Marlowe 1:08:07

Mm-hmm.

Duane Newton 1:08:08

So then you created that kind of, you created a space where. You were there, you know, supporting, you know, there's a, there were safety nets around him that he felt comfortable taking that risk and putting himself in that position because it is a risk to say, I'm gonna do that. And, and I think it, that mentality, um, that supportive mentality and that coaching, you know, it, it's kind of a coach. You're being a parent, you're being a great parent. Um, but that kind of philosophy in coaching and mentoring and advising and supporting and sponsoring your team in your workplace, it's, it's the same kind of

Beth Marlowe 1:08:58

mm-hmm.

Duane Newton 1:08:59

You're creating the same kind of safe place for 'em. And I think that, that, can you talk about that? You know, sort of trans,

Beth Marlowe 1:09:09

like

Duane Newton 1:09:09

translating that experience to, you know, what, what you feel like is important in, in your leadership roles and, and

Beth Marlowe 1:09:19

yeah.

Duane Newton 1:09:19

What's been successful for you?

Beth Marlowe 1:09:21

Yeah. Um, I think, you know, like COVID is a great example, right? I mean, I, I was working for Roche Diagnostics. Um, I got approached by Quest, asked if I'd ever wanna come back to the lab. Um, didn't realize at the time they were working, looking for somebody for succession planning. I came in in June of 2019. My predecessor retired December 31st, 2019. Two weeks later we were working on COVID. I'd been in the company six months, right? And. We had the, you know, we did a ton of COVID testing, right? I was, I mean, like, like my husband's like, you should write a book about that experience. And I know we all have our experiences, but when you're working for a company like Quest, that's that big, you know, getting, you know, emails and calls from the White House and being scrutinized for everything and the amount of work we did. And I remember like, when this whole thing started, I was like, okay. You know, um, I was, I, I was in there every day alongside the staff. 'cause you can't lead a team of scientists and not be there. Um, I I, everybody would start to worry and get ahead of themselves and, and yes, I had my own share of like, worries. But I would just say, you know what, step one, we have to finish this. I'll worry about step two and three and four later, but let's get through step one. And I would always say to them like, okay, but have we gotten through step one, we'll get to step two. Later, well, let's finish step one, because they kept coming to us and saying, you know, we did six months of work in six weeks. And then they'd say, do it again, but we need to do it faster. And the, you know, the team was a team and you know, there was times I would go in and say, what, how do you want me to sort specimens? I would sort samples for them. I would label something and I would go in and get on a call with like the executive team, because that's what you do. That's, that's part of showing up, that's part of being a team. But also just reminding people like kinda what you're saying. It's like, be present, focus on your task. And, and the other thing, and, and some of this also came from our CMO at the time, Jay Wilmuth. 'cause I remember he came in and he is like, look, you know, this is, this is like your super bowl of like from a microbiology perspective and you're gonna make mistakes and that's okay. You gotta just keep moving. And I kept reminding the staff is like, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna move fast. We're gonna make mistakes and we're gonna move past them. 'cause we can't, we just don't have time. And I think people really appreciated that. You know, they appreciated that I put a lab coat on and was in there with them. They appreciated that. You know, I was honest with them. And, you know, there were days that I had bad days and mm-hmm. We leaned on each other. Like, um, I remember one time they asked me to do this calculation. We were calculating like, oligo, like how many oligos we needed. And I was like, dear God, I haven't done a calculation like this since I was in grad school. I, I missed the calculation up. I'm gonna like miscalculate how much? And like, I was like, I remember I like grabbed one of the scientists, was like, you gotta help me check this. Calculate, you know, but like. You know, it sounds funny at like now, but I'm like, when's the last time I had to calculate like oli oils and like nan or, or something? Mm-hmm. Like, I mean like yeah, I know there's like online calculators and stuff, but it was just funny because I hadn't had to do a calculation like that in a, in a really long time. I just needed somebody to check my math, but we were there for each other. Mm-hmm. And I think, you know, I think doing that and, and reminding people, like I think, you know, for a lot of young people moving up in their career, especially in science, um, it's easy to wanna make sure you're the smartest person in the room or like show that you're the smartest person in the room or, but really it's not about that, right? It's about making the room your in smarter, right? Mm-hmm. And how do we do that? Um, and I think translating that as you move up and working interdisciplinary. In an interdisciplinary fashion across teams. It's really important. And that goes back to that communication piece. Um,

Duane Newton 1:13:30

yeah, the, the, the important part of that that, you know, I'm really working on and want to help, I wanna get better at it and I wanna help other people get better at it too, is making sure that everybody's voice is heard and that the, the, there are, there are lots of voices in the room that need to be heard and f and figuring out how to access that. And, um, hard

Beth Marlowe 1:14:02

it,

Duane Newton 1:14:03

it is, I, I remember, um, you know, a failure of mine, it during COVID that it had turned into a learning opportunity and, and a growth opportunity. We had to, um, we were using, um, the. m2000s for the COVID testing. Once everything, you know, once the EUAs came out and, uh, we had to aliquot samples, the techs had to aliquot samples from the primary tube into the, the tubes that went onto the instrument. And we made a decision from a biosafety standpoint to heat inactivate those in the biosafety cabinet before we put them on the instrument. So, um, that was, you know, there was some conversa, this was early and there was some conversation about, you know, how to, how to handle samples safely. Um, you know, whether or not it was appropriate to have inactivated samples on the instrument, whatever. So we did that.

Beth Marlowe 1:15:09

I, I had, I had similar conversations,

Duane Newton 1:15:11

so we we're doing this, we implement it, you know, and trying to keep the, you know, the health and safety of the staff. At the front of our mind,

Beth Marlowe 1:15:22

of course.

Duane Newton 1:15:23

And you know, that first week we were getting like 10, 15, 20% in inhibition rate because all the albumin in the transport media was coagulating and gumming up the instrument. And so we, you know, after a few days of doing this, we, we kind of figured out what that that was a likely issue. And I just pulled the team together and I talked about, you know, this is what's happening. This is why it's hap why we think it's happening. Um, this is what the, you know, the future impact is gonna be if we keep letting it happen. You know, how, how comfortable do you all feel with not inactivating it and, and handling 'em just like every other specimen that we handle and using the same. Precautions and you know, that we hand, you know, we handle our HIV viral loads with mm-hmm. And all that other stuff, you know, and so the just kind of standing up, you know, I thought it was important as they look back on it to say, I don't think, you know, I made this decision based on the best information that we had and, you know, it turns out to not work very well and we have to do something different.

Beth Marlowe 1:16:54

Yeah.

Duane Newton 1:16:54

But I wanna make sure that you guys are all comfortable with it and, and, you know, we talked about it and, and they were unanimous. And, and, and I think, you know, having that kind of, um,

Beth Marlowe 1:17:10

dialogue,

Duane Newton 1:17:10

you right, you, you, you said it, you don't have to be, you don't have to be or pretend to be the smartest person in the room, right. I don't, I don't know. I'm not sure, but this is what I think.

Beth Marlowe 1:17:23

Yeah.

Duane Newton 1:17:23

You know, what do you guys think? And

Beth Marlowe 1:17:25

yeah.

Duane Newton 1:17:26

And I think that that's, um, that's something that I think is really important for folks in our position to help create that space, that psychologically safe space, because then that those people are gonna feel comfortable coming up to you and saying, you know, I think this, or

Beth Marlowe 1:17:50

mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm.

Duane Newton 1:17:51

I understand where you're coming from, but this is another way to look at it and

Beth Marlowe 1:17:55

mm-hmm.

Duane Newton 1:17:55

Um, and not for whatever reason, you know, it takes, it takes a while to develop that kind of a relationship with people. But yeah. COVID

Beth Marlowe 1:18:09

yeah,

Duane Newton 1:18:10

forced us, forced us to, you know, forced a lot of things to happen and it, it forced me to figure out how to. To do things differently as a leader too. And that was one of them.

Beth Marlowe 1:18:22

But I think even like outside of COVID, you know, relationships are everything. Um, the relationships that you have people with people both internal to your organization and out outside of your organization, even like in your personal life, like relationships. Those relationships, you build that trust, you build with people. Like you and I both know, we could probably name the same people that we would call if we needed, you know, advice or guidance on something or a problem or whatever. We could, we, we know, right?

Duane Newton 1:18:55

Well, we're talking to them right now,

Beth Marlowe 1:18:59

my friend, but. You know what I'm saying is mm-hmm. And, and, and that relationship goes back to the people that you're leading. Right. And, um, it's all about relationships, um, and what you can get done. I had a similar experience with like the biosafety stuff. I remember we were about to go live with testing and I did not sleep well all night. And I kept, and I, I woke up in the middle of the night worried about biosafety. I remember sitting up in bed and then I like called one of those people that I trust on my way into work who didn't work for us and asked their opinion. And I got to work and I was like, you know, got all the team together and I was like, guys, guys, I'm really, I don't think we thought about some of this stuff. 'cause I was so, like, so concerned about the safety and wellbeing of my staff first and foremost. Mm-hmm. And, um, but we worked through it. Right. And, you know, we had, you know, we actually did really, really well. Well but that, you know, like. That those, those conversations are so important. It's so funny that you had the same experience mm-hmm. That I did.

Duane Newton 1:20:05

Mm-hmm. Uh, I think, you know, the, what you just said is a nice way to wrap things up about, um, you know, the relationships are everything. And I, I really feel like, um, that was the biggest thing that I took away from, from my clinical micro fellowship and the experience that I had with in Marilyn as a mentor. The, the community, the family of former fellows, um, that you, we were instantly, um. Brothers and sisters in arms with, you know, by going through that program and realizing that not everybody had that same kind of experience. You know, there, there are a lot of programs that, you know, there's, there's a, there's a connection. Connection is maintained, you know, the UCLA fellows know the UCLA fellows. I was

Beth Marlowe 1:21:11

just gonna say, I went through UCLA and I feel the same way about the UCLA fellows. Doesn't matter what year you graduated,

Duane Newton 1:21:17

right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Beth Marlowe 1:21:19

And that,

Duane Newton 1:21:20

um, the, I, I think that's, that's a special thing and you know, that has had a huge influence on me in, in my career. And, um, I hope that things like this are ways to bring that kind of energy to other people that in might not have had that same kind of experience and that. You're getting to, to meet you and listen to us talk about stuff that, you know, these are the kinds of things that we talk about. And, and maybe there is a little bit of, um, bias because I'm surrounding myself with people that I like and that I want to engage with and that, you know, that I feel like are emotionally aligned. Um, but I think there, you know, those kind of people, the kind of people that, um, that are important to me, you know, I wish there were more people like that in life. And I, I wanna share that with others. And so I, you, you're definitely high on that list of, of people that we. We started basically the same time and have been doing this, um, forever and have, you know, I don't even remember where, where we met the first time, but it feels like we've known each other. I mean, I can't tell you if thir, you know, 25 years, 30 years of

Beth Marlowe 1:23:07

Yeah. Long

Duane Newton 1:23:07

time. Um, it's a long time.

Beth Marlowe 1:23:09

Yeah.

Duane Newton 1:23:10

So that's, I appreciate you coming on and, and contributing to creating that kind of community and sharing your stories and your perspectives. Uh, I think it was great and, um, I look forward to, um, episode two, somewhere down the line, you know, after we've done more of these things and get to talk about some other stuff too.

Beth Marlowe 1:23:36

I would love that. And, uh, thank you so much for having me and letting me. Share my story and talk with me and share it with your audience. And I feel the same way about you, Duane. And there's, you know, I think there's probably more people than we realize out there. We just haven't had a chance to talk to each other.

Duane Newton 1:23:52

Yep.

Beth Marlowe 1:23:52

So we just need to do more of that human connection. But I just think people just enjoy the journey 'cause it's all gonna be Okay.

Duane Newton 1:24:02

Great. That, that's great words and, um, I'm working on that too.

Beth Marlowe 1:24:11

You're doing great. Uh,

Duane Newton 1:24:12

thanks Beth. You are too. Thanks for joining and, uh, happy to have you on here.

Beth Marlowe 1:24:19

Thank you.

Duane Newton 1:24:27

If you're enjoying Navigating Your Path, please be sure to like or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to directly connect with me, you can reach out via my podcast email, which is listed in the description of this episode. It also contains the links to the podcast website and YouTube channel where you can check out more of my content. Feel free to reach out if you'd like to share any comments or even make suggestions about future topics to discuss. I'd also love to hear from you if you have suggestions for people for me to interview or even if you'd like to be interviewed by me. You can also contact me if you'd like to learn more about what it is that I do as a professional development coach. I look forward to having you join me next time. Take good care.